SKJM Forum
Support => iCam Support => : belanger December 31, 2011, 12:53:48 AM
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#################################################
# UPDATE : 2012/01/04
#
# FYI - This issue is now resolved.
#
# UPDATE : 2012/01/03
#
# iCam is great software and I'm getting really great support.
#
# For those of you following this thread, I wanted to update this post now
# because Stefan is definitely a hard worker decidated to fix this issue.
# Today we've made good progress in the understanding of the issue that
# I reported.
#
# 2 Thumbs up to iCam!
#
# We'll keep you posted.
#
# Pierre
#
#################################################
I'm not happy with iCAM -- I purchased a few days ago.
The refresh rate is so sluggish so I'd like a refund but I'm ready to give you a chance unless you prefer to refund me now.
BTW I did read before posting and complaining!
__ The computer : Dell i7 8GB RAM with SSD HD.
__ Tested over WIFI and with computer connected directly on the wifi router @ 100Mbps. Checked the network interfaces stats, not a single error.
__ The cameras : 1 internal USB and 1 Panasonic high-end
With the USB, I make sure the "WebDell" background app was dead -- the refresh of the image is slow. Using a video conference app over the Internet and even 2 laptop next to each other on the same network, the images refresh great in high resolution. Obviously ICam isn't great here at all.
The video of my USB camera in iCamSource refreshes super fast but not on the iPad at all.
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With the Panasonic camera (tested at 2, 4 and 5 fps), again same result. Refresh in iCamSource is great on the iPad it's bad. I'm opening Safari on my iPad2, I put the URL for my Panasonic camera and the refresh is great.
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On my iPAD I stream Netflix on it with no issue -- same on my PC. I stream video to my iPad from my Luxriot security software, it works great.
Just so you know where I come from, the first time I installed a server on the Internet it's back in 1991 -- and I'm still configuring today Linux/Sun/Windows servers, doing deep Unix C development, etc.
This said now you know you don't have to ask me if my network, computer or anything else is wrong.
I believe the issue is with iCamSource (or the iPad?). I did notice -- not all the time -- but a few times that on a iCamSource restart, looking at my iPad the video refresh is super fast... but within ~1-2 seconds, it goes _bad_ that I'm not happy with the product.
So where is the issue? iCam on the iPad2, iCamSource or both? Anyhow, I'd like a refund but I can wait 1 month for the refund if you need time. If you want to provide me a binary with debugging info (timestamps debugging) , go ahead. I'll be glad to help you.
Overall for 5$ it's a great product but for me the ~1 image / ~ 2 seconds is a major issue. Hopefully you fix this soon.
iCam v2.1.1
iCamSource v2.4.3
Thank you,
Pierre
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Have you tried manual port forwarding OR router auto-config(icamsource)/uPNP(enabled in router settings)? Are you seeing the slow refresh rates while your iPad is connected to your local wifi network? Or over 3g? Apple/AT&T limit iCam to 2 images/second over 3g (and slower over Edge). If your iPad is on the same network as the cameras, though, the video feeds should pretty much look the same as they do in icamsource. What do you have your image sizes set to on the 2 cameras? The bigger they are, the more they have to be processed (I think 640x480 is the max that can be sent per Apple/AT&T). Do you have the same issues if you try only adding the IP Camera to icamsource? Or vice versa with only the USB camera?
These are just some things that you can check...and that might help the SKJM guys diagnose/fix the problem for you. Good luck, though...iCam is awesome once you get it working good. But remember, it will never be fluid video when viewing over the Internet...2 frames/second max (which is still 4x faster than what you're seeing now).
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Have you tried manual port forwarding OR router auto-config(icamsource)/uPNP(enabled in router settings)? Are you seeing the slow refresh rates while your iPad is connected to your local wifi network? Or over 3g? Apple/AT&T limit iCam to 2 images/second over 3g (and slower over Edge). If your iPad is on the same network as the cameras, though, the video feeds should pretty much look the same as they do in icamsource. What do you have your image sizes set to on the 2 cameras? The bigger they are, the more they have to be processed (I think 640x480 is the max that can be sent per Apple/AT&T). Do you have the same issues if you try only adding the IP Camera to icamsource? Or vice versa with only the USB camera?
These are just some things that you can check...and that might help the SKJM guys diagnose/fix the problem for you. Good luck, though...iCam is awesome once you get it working good. But remember, it will never be fluid video when viewing over the Internet...2 frames/second max (which is still 4x faster than what you're seeing now).
I thought I was clear -> __ Tested over WIFI and with computer connected directly on the wifi router @ 100Mbps. Checked the network interfaces stats, not a single error. TO be more precise, the WIFI router and the router where the PC is connected is the same one.
uPNP is not needed for the video on the local network but I do see the added entry (FYI my router is a wtr54gs running Tomato firmware which is based on Linux in case you don't know Tomato...).
I'm doing 640x480 with the Panasonic camera -- I have no control on the USB camera.
I also tried using only the IP camera, same result.
Like I wrote at the end of my first post -> sometimes (few times) on a fresh restart for 1-2 seconds the video is fluid... then it's really sluggish.
Thank you,
Pierre
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Yeah, just making sure you were on a local wifi. Hmm, that is strange. Hopefully the SKJM guys can figure out what's going on. It seems like someone else had this issue a long time ago, but I can't remember what the outcome was.
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So it sounds like you are seeing 1 frame every 2 seconds (or 0.5 fps) is that correct? Is that when you are "zoomed in" on a camera (full-screen) or when you are looking at the thumbnail view?
It sounds like a local WiFi bandwidth issue as you should see more than that over local WiFi as long as your WiFi network isn't bogged down with a lot of other traffic, filtering, or interference. Have you tried using just the USB webcam and not the network camera? You could also try cycling power on your router just to see if that has any effect.
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So it sounds like you are seeing 1 frame every 2 seconds (or 0.5 fps) is that correct? Is that when you are "zoomed in" on a camera (full-screen) or when you are looking at the thumbnail view?
It sounds like a local WiFi bandwidth issue as you should see more than that over local WiFi as long as your WiFi network isn't bogged down with a lot of other traffic, filtering, or interference. Have you tried using just the USB webcam and not the network camera? You could also try cycling power on your router just to see if that has any effect.
Hello Stephan,
Zoomed in or out same result , not faster or slower when I'm zoomed in.
In terms of WIFI, I tested this on 2 different WIFI routers and I get the same result -- I'm the only one around on this frequency (validated). BTW I live on a major city.
Yes I did try just the USB and just the IP cam -> same result.
So what's next?
Pierre
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Here are my result using a Microsoft USB LifeCam Studio Full 1080p.
The result is even worst. I wait for the image to load on the iPad, I put my hand in front of the camera and it takes a good 2 seconds for the hand to show up. Then I take my iPad, go to netflick and I have awesome video.
Don't blame my wifi, it works flawlessly.
Pierre
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How can I access the iCamSource video feed from any of my other i7 laptop and desktop? Is your protocol running over HTTP or not?
I have a HTC Desire -- is there a way I can install the app w/o having to pay?
I will also try to install iCamSource on another laptop and see if the result is the same.
Pierre
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I just tested with another laptop : both the integrated camera as well as with the USB Microsoft camera gives sluggish video on my iPad. I go to Netflix on my iPad, open a movie... again stunning video. Definitely not a network issue of any kind. I even rebooted my iPad (just in case).
I also tested with the latest iCamSource software as well as the 2 other previous versions available to download.
I also look at one of your video on the web site, there's a small animal walking around. Obviously the refresh I can isn't the same at all.
What else to try?
Pierre
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What is the % CPU usage of the iCamSource application when you connect to it with your iPad?
If you try choosing "Better Frame Rate" instead of "Better Image Quality" in the iCamSource do you see any improvement?
You can try connecting to your iCamSource from a computer web browser using iCamWeb (http://skjm.com/icam/web/) but it is limited to 1 fps by default.
You can adjust the limit by adding &fps=5 to the URL to up the limit to 5 fps. You should see at least a couple of frames per second in iCamWeb. You can also try to connect from the same computer to remove the networking variable and see how things look then.
(To answer your other questions: No, the protocol is not running over HTTP, and no, we do not offer trial / free versions of iCam for Android or iOS devices.)
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I did a wireshark capture, hoping I could figure out how to connect to iCamSource ... let's talk about that capture!
While the iPad is connected, pretty much always see the following stream of packet :
PC -> iPad - packet size 99 (54)
iPad -> PC - packet size 91 (46)
iPad -> PC - packet size 95 (50)
PC -> iPad - packet size 1119 (1074 UDP data portion)
PC -> iPad - packet size 1119
PC -> iPad - packet size 1119
PC -> iPad - packet size 1119
PC -> iPad - packet size 1119
PC -> iPad - packet size 1119
PC -> iPad - packet size 1119
PC -> iPad - packet size 1119
PC -> iPad - packet size 100 (55)
iPad -> PC - packet size 103 (58)
iPad -> PC - packet size 99 (54)
PC -> iPad - packet size 91 (46)
PC -> iPad - packet size 95 (50)
iPad -> PC - packet size 106 (61)
PC -> iPad - packet size 103 (58)
Then it starts over again and again.
__ At exactly every 1 second the stream is STOP. Why is that? Maybe because the image is still ... no changes on the camera. BUT if I start to wave my hand in front of the camera, the stream stays the same and is again blocking every second.
At least when I move my hand in front of the camera, I'd expect more network traffic but it's not happening. Why not? How could 8 packets of 1074 bytes (the UDP data portion size) can properly update a high-res image? I'd expect the stream to be low in traffic if the image doesn't change a lot and see more traffic when I move my hand in front of the camera. Why isn't it like that?
Hopefully you have something to bite on and find where the issue could be. I don't expect to post anymore data, I think I've provided you enough proof with the network data capture to show there's something wrong. It's not normal for the network traffic to pause every second.
Pierre
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CPU w/o iPad or iPad connected : 11-26%
No difference between Better Frame Rate / Better Quality.
The good news is that using my 2nd laptop (over WIFI, just like my iPad) and with IE9 (skjm.com/icam/web set at 5fps) the refresh now works fine but for sure I don't see 5 fps... perhaps 1-2 frame/seconds. I'd be happy to have that refresh on my iPad for 5$ but I'm not getting that.
My iPad2 is 2 weeks old, running iOS 5.0. I'm able to stream netflix video so there's no such wifi issue here.
If you guys are using UDP, I still don't understand why the network isn't flowing faster. I look at the capture and there are a few millisecond delays sometimes that I can't understand -- my laptop is only running iCamSource when I'm doing this.
What do you have in mind now?
Pierre
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Is your iPad 2 running 5.0 or 5.0.1? If it is running 5.0 I would suggest updating it to the latest available software.
Since others users are not reporting this issue (seeing one frame every 2 seconds over the same local WiFi network is not normal) then I am guessing that it has something to do with your particular setup.
Is your iPad 2 jailbroken?
The iCamSource does have logic in it to throttle the connection on a per-second basis, but only when iCam is reporting that it is connected via 3G.
The fact that you are able to see a couple of frames a second via iCamWeb is good to know, but doesn't really help the issue on the iPad. (The &fps=5 simply removes the 1 fps limit ... It doesn't force or guarantee 5 frames per second.)
My other suggestions would be to cycle power on your iPad and router and remove any other WiFi devices from your network temporarily to see if that has any effect.
Also, is your WiFi network 802.11b/g/n?
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Is your iPad 2 running 5.0 or 5.0.1? If it is running 5.0 I would suggest updating it to the latest available software.
Since others users are not reporting this issue (seeing one frame every 2 seconds over the same local WiFi network is not normal) then I am guessing that it has something to do with your particular setup.
Is your iPad 2 jailbroken?
The iCamSource does have logic in it to throttle the connection on a per-second basis, but only when iCam is reporting that it is connected via 3G.
The fact that you are able to see a couple of frames a second via iCamWeb is good to know, but doesn't really help the issue on the iPad. (The &fps=5 simply removes the 1 fps limit ... It doesn't force or guarantee 5 frames per second.)
My other suggestions would be to cycle power on your iPad and router and remove any other WiFi devices from your network temporarily to see if that has any effect.
Also, is your WiFi network 802.11b/g/n?
iPad2 running 5.0.1, no jailbroken.
I took too much time to reply, my session timeout and now I have to write everything over.
I'll do this faster, if you're not positive on what I write please ask.
I have an account with StrongVPN (google it). On my PC I open my VPN (OpenVPN). Once the VPN is open, I start iCamSource and then launch iCam no my iPad. iCam to connect to iCamSource MUST go over Internet to reach the StrongVPN IP address associated to my PC. When I do this, iCam works flawlessly. The video is extremely fluid even at the maximum "Better Video Quality'. Currently on my WIFI router I force to use B network (11 Mbps). You have to agree with me, 11Mbps is way more than enough to stream this video.
I also tested in G and N, I get the same results -> over the VPN stunning video, w/o the VPN sluggish. Are we positive the "non 3G iPad" returns the right information to your application?
BTW I'd rather have this "3G delay" like an option. If WIFI is on, it doesn't mean that the device isn't going via a cellular network. I intend to tether with my Android phone over 3G. Why not make this a configuration option? ... or can't your "protocol" adjust based on how the stream goes? I know it can be tricky... or why not an option like to tells how often to refresh? When I'm on 3G, refresh every minute might be enough for a camera in front of the garage entrance. Per camera setting on the iCam side would be great. Just suggestions ... but all I want if iCam on local network to work flawlessly.
If you fix it I won't request a refund but I'll also buy the Android app for my phone, and I think I have a friend of mine that might be interested as well.
Tomorrow I'll try to find a wifi cafe (hoping one is open around here) and try it from a remote location (honestly tomorrow I think everything is close here, this might have to wait).
Pierre
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The 3G limit is imposed by Apple. App Store apps can only stream around 10 KB/s over 3G or they will not be approved. iOS devices allow developers to query what type of network they are connected to for throttling purposes. If your iPad is connected via WiFi then iCam will not be throttled.
It sounds like you have a lot of moving parts on your network, with multiple WiFi networks (as per your post before it was edited) and the ability to connect via a VPN. The fact that it works fine when using your VPN means that there is likely some other issue / configuration on your local network / system that is causing the problem.
I would start with a completely standard vanilla setup (temporarily disabling all advanced firewall / security software / network packet shaping and filtering settings) with a simple NAT-ed network connection and work backwards to find the culprit. Start with the best-case scenario using your fastest available WiFi network (which never provide their maximum advertised bandwidth anyway) and go from there.
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The 3G limit is imposed by Apple. App Store apps can only stream around 10 KB/s over 3G or they will not be approved. iOS devices allow developers to query what type of network they are connected to for throttling purposes. If your iPad is connected via WiFi then iCam will not be throttled.
It sounds like you have a lot of moving parts on your network, with multiple WiFi networks (as per your post before it was edited) and the ability to connect via a VPN. The fact that it works fine when using your VPN means that there is likely some other issue / configuration on your local network / system that is causing the problem.
I would start with a completely standard vanilla setup (temporarily disabling all advanced firewall / security software / network packet shaping and filtering settings) with a simple NAT-ed network connection and work backwards to find the culprit. Start with the best-case scenario using your fastest available WiFi network (which never provide their maximum advertised bandwidth anyway) and go from there.
I'm at my mother's house now, it can't be more vanilla that you can ask for. I'm having the same issue here and if I open my VPN it works flawlessly.
Bottom line, whenever I test this regardless of the router "iCam <-> iCamSource" locally lags (no NAT needed here) and nothing is complicated here at all. It's the most simple scenario you can ask for, isn't it?
If you have no other clue, please tell me how to get myself a refund.
Pierre
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You set up icamsource and a camera on your mom's computer, then connected your iPad to her network...and the same issue occurred? Weird! Hope you get it figured out. iCam is awesome/helpful once it's set up and working correctly. The fact that it's working correctly when you enable your VPN is strange. How do you connect to the VPN? Do you have to install software for it? If so, did you try connecting iCam before installing it on your mom's computer? Is it possible the VPN software is interferring? I'm not familiar with VPN's and how they work.
Also, you were talking about the bitrate when using a hi-def camera....icamsource downsizes the images to a max of 640 x 480 to achieve that bitrate. So having cameras with resolutions set to greater than 640 x 480 will only cause your computer to work harder and possibly slow down the number of images being sent in a given amount of time. Granted, it sounds like your computer is more than capable of processing the hi-res images at more than 2/sec with no problem.
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If you are on a more "vanilla" network and are still experiencing the same issue it may be software on your local computer that is somehow effecting the traffic when you are not connecting through your VPN.
What security / firewall / anti-virus software do you have running on your computer?
If you would like a refund for an Apple App Store purchase you can click the "Report a Problem" link in your e-mail receipt that you received for iCam or from within your iTunes account's purchase history. Developers are given the ability to issue refunds direct to customers on the Android Market, but not on the Apple App Store.
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You set up icamsource and a camera on your mom's computer, then connected your iPad to her network...and the same issue occurred? Weird! Hope you get it figured out. iCam is awesome/helpful once it's set up and working correctly. The fact that it's working correctly when you enable your VPN is strange. How do you connect to the VPN? Do you have to install software for it? If so, did you try connecting iCam before installing it on your mom's computer? Is it possible the VPN software is interferring? I'm not familiar with VPN's and how they work.
Also, you were talking about the bitrate when using a hi-def camera....icamsource downsizes the images to a max of 640 x 480 to achieve that bitrate. So having cameras with resolutions set to greater than 640 x 480 will only cause your computer to work harder and possibly slow down the number of images being sent in a given amount of time. Granted, it sounds like your computer is more than capable of processing the hi-res images at more than 2/sec with no problem.
I have my laptop and iPad with me.
Pierre
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If you are on a more "vanilla" network and are still experiencing the same issue it may be software on your local computer that is somehow effecting the traffic when you are not connecting through your VPN.
What security / firewall / anti-virus software do you have running on your computer?
If you would like a refund for an Apple App Store purchase you can click the "Report a Problem" link in your e-mail receipt that you received for iCam or from within your iTunes account's purchase history. Developers are given the ability to issue refunds direct to customers on the Android Market, but not on the Apple App Store.
I agree it could be something on the computer but I don't know any such type of "anti-virus / firewall" that would delay packets every second. I already ask you this but didn't get a clear answer from you. What is the "sleep" logic in iCamSource? Is it based on 1 second or not?
The fact that I'm from Canada makes no difference, right? The fact that I'm using Bell Canada (which is also a cellular provider) makes no difference as well in the "logic" of how your both applications slows the traffic or not, right? That is a change when I open my VPN I'm coming out in the USA but w/o the VPN I'm coming out from Bell network.
This said, I tried on 2 computers. One has AVG anti-virus and the other one is "MS Security Essentials". There are no special firewall rules, I mean it's "basic" stuff.
I'll wait for the refund, I'm not there yet - I do like what I see when I'm on the VPN. Maybe you or I will think of something and figure it out. It can't be that hard, it's all logic.
Pierre
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I turned off the firewall, still the same. Local = sluggish with VPN it works flawlessly :-/
Pierre
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There's 1 thing I didn't check from the network capture that I did yesterday. I just did another capture...
I believe that the 1 second latency is introduced by the iPad2 NOT iCamSource. Why? There are 8 packets of 1077 data length (I guess this is the video, right?) that are send from iCamSource to the iPad. Right after those 8 packets, there's the 1 second delay and then the iPad2 sends the following packets (I guess you can decrypt it).
7f:cd:d3:cf:c5:81:26:9d:4b:a7:c4:38:c0:b2:fe:4f:9d:27:8a:5b:c0:a8:02:16:00:00:e2:68:31:cd:ef:7e:1e:3c:48:a9:fb:22:c7:c4:7a:c3:1e:63:ad:7b:ee:de:3a:00:00:00:01:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:07
So iCamSource is waiting for that packet before the stream continues.
Pierre
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The only piece of information that determines whether or not the frame rate is throttled is whether or not the iOS device reports that it is connected via WiFi. It doesn't matter what country you are in. Is your iPad a 3G iPad? Or is it just a WiFi iPad?
Let's try taking your computer out of the equation.
I have started a temporary test iCamSource with the login skjm and password test2012 that I get multiple frames per second over local WiFi. If you attempt to connect to it from your iPad do you see the "sluggish" video?
The video is from a public IP camera, and you can get a good idea of the frame rate from the JPEG artifacts changing in the image.
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A WIFI only iPad, so no 3G here for sure.
Using the temporary account the refresh is perfect.
There's 1 test I haven't done yet, it's to connect from a remote site to my camera. Not sure if this will make a difference or not to understand the issue.
There's no filtering, qos or whatsoever on this WIFI at my mother's place -- even mine at home doesn't have any restrictions, for sure not on any of the local traffic.
If I provide you with a network capture log, is there a way for you to see if the iPad is in "3G slow mode". I know the app checks if the iPad is in WIFI mode or not, what if there's a bug in iOS?! I just don't understand why the iPad is waiting 1 second on the local network.
I might go drive around later to try to find an opened WIFI to see if I find something else.
Pierre
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Yes, if you have Wireshark capture logs I can look at them tomorrow to see if there's anything indicative of the cause of this issue. You can e-mail them to support@skjm.com ... Just reference this forum post in your e-mail. (I won't be able to see if it thinks it is in "3G" mode but maybe I will be able to see something useful.)
Also, FYI, the MJPEG URL I was using with the iCamSource (I have since closed it) is http://k133-202.mgmt.purdue.edu/mjpg/video.mjpg?resolution=320x240 if you wanted to try it out on your iCamSource.
I am assuming you are running the latest version of the iCamSource and that you have all of your Windows updates installed. What version of Windows (XP / Vista / 7) are you running?
One thing you could also try is to plug your computer in to your router's Ethernet port (assuming one is available) and try connecting to your computer when it is hard-wired instead of connected via WiFi.
If you are able to find another WiFi network to connect from while driving around that would also be useful, or tomorrow you could run your iCamSource with a temporary test login and password and I could try and connect to see if I can replicate the issue.
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Windows 7 64bits fully up-to-date
iCamSource v2.4.3
I tried the computer via WIFI and directly connected -- I tried that here at my mother as well as at my house.
Yes tomorrow I'll try to find an "external" WIFI to try that as well.
Expect the capture file later...
Thank you,
Pierre
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#################################################
# UPDATE : 2012/01/03
#
# iCam is great software and I'm getting really great support.
#
# For those of you following this thread, I wanted to update this post now
# because Stefan is definitely a hard worker decidated to fix this issue.
# Today we've made good progress in the understanding of the issue that
# I reported.
#
# 2 Thumbs up to iCam!
#
# We'll keep you posted.
#
# Pierre
#
#################################################
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I told ya they provide great support! :) So what is the issue? Bug in iCam/icamsource? Issue with your computer/network? Just curious.
#################################################
# UPDATE : 2012/01/03
#
# iCam is great software and I'm getting really great support.
#
# For those of you following this thread, I wanted to update this post now
# because Stefan is definitely a hard worker decidated to fix this issue.
# Today we've made good progress in the understanding of the issue that
# I reported.
#
# 2 Thumbs up to iCam!
#
# We'll keep you posted.
#
# Pierre
#
#################################################
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Technically it was a bug in the iCamSource that for some reason only reared its ugly head on some machines but not others. I believe I have it figured out, so we should have a fix released shortly for those users effected. :)